IMHO, most of the sports analogies are from the Olympic styled games which were found throughout the empires. Yes I believe that Paul was influenced by his teacher Gamaliel and his experience of being a Pharisee, but I do not think these were the only factors shaping how and what Paul taught and wrote. This powerful conversion led Paul to give his life to the mission of building up the church and furthering the kingdom of God. Paul made up his own rule. It was very interesting to me that it was likely that Paul was raised in a very Jewish home, trained in all the Jewish ways and teachings, and a student of Gamalieland yet he did react to Christianity in such a violent and zealous form. How about you? But Ive branched out into quite a few other books of the New Testament, and some Old Testament as well as frequent book reviews. You can read Peters advice for yourself- then open your Bible to Matthew, John, Revelation, and Mark, and listen to Jesus for yourself! And most Evangelical pastors who read the Bible spend most of their time listening to the voice of Paul, so they become like Paul. But I digress, James, we had a good run. When Paul was arrested, he told the people and the authorities, "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated at the feet of Gamaliel according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as all of you are this day" (Acts 22:3). However I do travel to Dallas for Shavuot to visit one of Messianic Rabbis down there. Take a piece of scripture and make nutty doctrines/traditions out of them. For instance, Shammai believed the halachot they created that gentiles could never be saved or be in covenant and to eat with them was idolatry. This is more accurate, important, and authoritative than personal letters written by Paul the Pharisee, who never knew Jesus personally, had no part in His ministry, and had no eyewitness testimony. Ecclesiastical tradition maintains that Gamaliel had embraced the Christian faith and his tolerant attitude toward the Early Christians is explained by this. Ridiculous. Last Update: October 15, 2022. Lets stick to what the Word says and not look for other answers which are not guaranteed but are assumptions. Well, I did take a few music classes there part-time for two or three semesters, and one time, Marco Barrientos was a substitute teacher in one of my classes for maybe 45 minutes. Paul would say his success came from the power of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit. Undoubtedly, most of the Jews knew who Gamaliel was, and thus they allowed Paul to speak. If anything Paul reacted on his duty to do what he thought was right and purify what was most important to him, the law. And even if Matthias was physically absent at that particular occasion, Jesus is still establishing the basic qualification for having one of the twelve thrones as being you who have followed me, not someone who will follow Jesus in the future, like Paul, James, Luke or anyone else in the world. This is certainly not the opinion of his young disciple Saul when we meet him in Acts 9 and according to Pauls own self-description. You will seek Him and find Him when you seek Him with all your heart.. To my Bible-believing Evangelical friends: If you have been reading some of my posts and you feel a spirit rising up inside you telling you: Hes wrong !!! Quick question (not one of my posts), was Paul around/among those that put Jesus to death?? You said that your QUOTE Quran is incorruptible. Thats like many Christians saying the Bible is inerrant. Muhammad is to Muslims as Paul is to most Christians as Mary is to most Catholics an idol that they worship, practically speaking. GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus THE crowd stood in hushed silence. At the Last Supper, Jesus said to His Apostles: You are those who have stood by me in my trials. Indeed in this case Christian tradition cannot really be trusted, in my opinion. (Not The Law the Prophets & the Writings, not All Scripture, not The whole Bible). (Acts 16:1-10). Is Paul a Christian Pharisee who believes in Jesus? Polhill goes on to talk about Paul studying Greek and by him studying under Gameliel and Hellenism, he would be around the gymnasium. Mark could be understood as the first core teachings of Peter and the other Apostles. Why not listen to Jesus, and His words written down and passed on by HIS faithful eyewitnesses, the Apostles HE personally appointed, and personally trained for over 3 years, Matthew and John? Paul being the prodigal student, as it were, and departing from his mentor to do whatever he wants, abandoning his teachings, and then returning later when he realizes how foolish he was. Exactly what Issa (p) al Masih said NOT TO! Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Pauls education. This is your only warning before being banned for incivility. And Paul only said it here, one time, in the middle of a personal letter. I could just say Jesus is our model. But never discuss the Scriptures that show why Paul is NOT our model. (Eastern Orthodox). One of them responded to me QUOTE: In short you believe Paul is the Anti Christ.. Not a new theory Mostly just misunderstanding Pauls writings..He never preached to abolish The Torah thats a misunderstanding https://unashamedofjesus.org/2016/05/31/greatest-commandment/#comment-5642, The other one responded to me QUOTE: When you referred to Jesus words about the greatest commandment, you neglected to mention the context. Dr. Ron Mosely and the archaeology team has gone through great lengths to disprove your theory by presenting actual archaeological evidence. N. T. Wright describes the Shammaite Pharisee as a militant hard-liner that was not willing to work with Rome as long as they could study the Torah, as Hillel had said (What Saint Paul Really Said, 26). Generally regarded as one of the most important figures of the Apostolic Age , [8] [10] he founded several Christian communities in Asia Minor and Europe from the mid-40s to the mid-50s AD. If the mere thought of questioning Pauline Doctrine or Pauls truthfulness ruffles your feathers, its a sign that Pauls rotten spiritual fruit has taken root in your life. Well see in your other articles. etc. Jesus never said anything like that, and Jesus did not see it that way. Tobit is a good reference In the Babylonian Talmud, Zevahim 97b and 100b there are statements given in the name of Rabbi Akiva that in the case of an unclaimed body, if no one is attending to it, the responsibility for the buriasl of this corpse falls on this person, who must do it despite any obstacles, regardless if one is a High Priest or Nazirite, neither of whom are allowed to become tamei, ritually impure. I am not sure we can know, but Aramaic seems likely, although Scripture would be studied in Hebrew. What was Paul's purpose in the Bible? And the head Mormon Apostle. Paul undermined Apollos and heretically claimed I became your father. This is very similar to The Beatles- All you need is love. When did Paul study under Gamaliel? Dont be put off by the ravings of Paul the Pharisee that so many Bible-believing Christians push so hard. You are extremely insulting to me when you ignore what was written and only hear what your own prejudice allows. If we need a man or a group of men to interpret the Word for us, that would make it a revelation that needs to be revealed. You cite NT Wright as describing the Shammaite Pharisee as a militant hard-liner that was not willing to work with Rome as long as they could study the Torah. I do not, however, see this as the case in the rest of the book of Acts, where Paul works the Roman system in his favor. But it wasnt worth mentioning to anyone in the first century, except the alleged mention of Jesus brother of James who is called Christ, since Chrestos means good it probably is saying James who is called Righteous One and not mentioning Christ or indicating Messiah by saying Christ. Hes an Liberal heretic !!! Jesus Leadership Training, The Book of Enoch for Beginners: A Guide to Expand Your Understanding of the Biblical World. May I ask which verses of Scripture you are basing this on? Since the garage is smaller, we can finish that quicker. Also known as Saul of Tarsus, he had been rescued by Roman troops and now faced the people from a stairway near the temple in Jerusalem. The Apostle John recorded about the New Jerusalem, The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. [Revelation 21:14], The Apostles are 12 faithful eyewitnesses who walked with Jesus during His entire earthly ministry, and Matthias is the 12th. And most of all, he wouldnt of been able to defend the Gospel in such a way as if he did not have the correct teaching. Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it (Proverbs 22.6). He was a ruthless persecutor who sought to stop what he saw as an aberration within Judaism. This article is the result of when you remove the culture/context of the scriptures, the Hebraics of the Brist Chadasha (Renewed Testament) and injecting the christian outlook that Shaul (Paul) divorced his Jewish roots. Im sorry that Christians cant come to grips in their confirmation bias that both Yeshua and Pauls ministries was infact Judaism.. But there is a notable difference in Paul from pre- to post-conversion. [23] The Orthodox church also venerates Gamaliel as a saint, where he is commemorated on August 2, the date when tradition states that his relics were found, along with those of the Apostle and Protomartyr Stephen and Nicodemus. Its no stretch to say Gamaliel was a Hillelite and Saul was a Shammaite. When Saul encountered the Lords voice in Acts chapter 9, it makes me question if Saul had been hearing the Lords voice sooner, but he was not listening? Paul is a Hillel talmudim through and though. But Pauls teachings drive one up the wall. Return to your own blog and post this stuff. Whom did Paul study under? I dont see this in the text. 2 : any of numerous moths whose gregarious larvae spin communal nests usually in trees. Imagine Wackyjesus in Wackyheaven, built on the foundations of 12 chalkboards: Matthias, you should have developed your skills in writing and public speaking. Jesus said its TWO commandments, with the greatest, most important, first command to .1) first, love God with everything youve got, and .2) second, love people. There are some good reasons to investigate Pauls claim to have been educated by Gamaliel. You can hover over the pic and it will say that (or at least it did for me in Firefox). I am not at all removing Paul (or Jesus) from the culture of the Second Temple period, but I certainly more aware of what was happening in the first century that you appear to be. Minhags- customs attached to moses and the oral law to make them valid that were infact against Torah and corrupt. This is simply not the case and you need to read a bit more widely than you have. So they disagree with each other. I trust that no one is offended and that as a result of this comment, we might get closer to Him, The Truth. Gamaliel said success would determine the truth of the movement. I know! http://www.problemswithpaul.com/Apostle_Paul.html. Whom I might add are much more well versed that you in that subject. Perhaps on the basis of a preserved tradition that he oversaw the body of St. Stephen. The issue wasnt the Torah, the issue it was the corrupted law that man attached to the Torah. Paul is not a liar; he just has a dual citizenship. . Yet Mohammed (saw) reiterated the message as Gods Messenger and like the Pharisees rejected him because their forefathers corrupted the original message. My problem is with your assumption that just because Paul differs from Gamaliel makes him a radical Shammaite Pharisee. The people who will protest most loudly against this truth are the modern Pauls: traveling evangelists, speakers, writers, abusive absentee mega-church pastors, Crusaders, and self-appointed apostles like Paul, who find it profitable to be like Paul rather than follow Jesus the Jewish Messiah. In fact in the book of John Jesus is pointed out as a Pharisee. The one in Deuteronomy 6:4-5, or the one in Leviticus 19:18 ? I choose to believe the testimony of multiple eyewitnesses who walked with Jesus and who knew Jesus personally. You dont know him, and Ive just barely met him. Paul has already been briefly mentioned in Acts in Chapters 7 and 8, in connection with the stoning of Stephen. I have also posted dozens of articles on the literature of the Second Temple Period, all of which ought to interest you. The Holy Trinity isnt Jesus, Paul, and Chuck. I think they are both wrong, because of Ephesians 2:15 and Matthew 5:17-20, among other Scripture passages Can you help to bring harmony in the Bride of Christ? This was where the institution derived its name, gymnos being the Greek word for naked. For Jews, nakedness was religiously offensive (11). By Paul being Jewish and involved in the gymnasium, he was going against the norm. In fact Paul was called Shaliach and Yeshua was called Rabbi. 1. No, im based in Missouri. As for your denial of a range of opinions in the first century, I suggest a something on the Dead Sea Scrolls, representing a more conservative view of practice than the Pharisees or Sadducees. We can now understand as they did then, what God wills, what Christ said, and His ambassadors taught. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about A.D. 6 at the earliest. I agree that the teaching of Gamaliel did influence his life and was the foundation of his ministry because he is a Talmudim from that school. Which one is it? Therefore, in times when there is no clarity, we should end there and not come up with our own assumptions. There are things which are not revealed and there are things which are revealed to us. Why does it make us so uncomfortable? He was brilliant and a top-educated person of his day. Although Gamaliel was a wise teacher, he was still a Pharisee, so his teaching was not in line with God. Law. Im following Jesus. Of course Gamaliel might have buried St. Stephen as an act of charity, given his stature in the community, not withstanding the hostility of the public. The words spoken by Jesus, recorded in our Bible by Matthew Mark Luke & John, should be above all other words. The blog started as a supplement to teaching through Acts at my church, then later college classes. I am not at all sure you have read my article accurately, nor really spent much time on this site reading the things I post here. He was most highly trained as a Pharisee, so maybe and OT PhD at the best university today? Log in. Long has taught full time at Grace Christian University since 1998, specializing in Bible and Biblical languages. He has Masters degrees in Biblical Exposition and Old Testament from Talbot School of Theology (BIOLA) and a PhD in New Testament from Andrews University. Evidence for this more accommodating opinion is found in the book of Acts. You need to read more than later recollections of what Hillell and Shammai said (ie.,, Mishnah and Talmud, both much later than the New Testament and there is a great discussion in scholarship over how much of that material reflects the real world of the first century). Gamaliel is reflecting the Hillel tradition of non-violence and allowing God to deal with parties that against the Jews (Polhill, Paul and His Letters, 31). When Hillel died in 10 AD, his son Simon (Gamaliel's father) took over Hillel's position as the nasi, which means president, of the Sanhedrin. With respect to Hellenism, Hillel was more open to Hellenism than Shammai and was therefore more open to cooperation with the Romans. Why do you want Paul to act like a Pope in Corinth, someone who oversees all aspects of the church? Not to mention I highly doubt you have a Phd in any area of academia or even known any grasp of Hebrew or Greek. I think we take Pauls claim here WAY too seriously. But, Once an idea has been accepted by your subconscious, it remains there and it governs your behavior until it is replaced or changed. [ as a pastor named Bishop Dale C. Bronner observed in one of his sermons]. Anyway, I should save a throne for him too.. 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